Now, I know nothing about HHG but I betcha that it didn't get much more scientific than that in the old days Lance
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| Mixing Hot Hide Glue? http://www-.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=8018 |
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| Author: | LanceK [ Wed Aug 16, 2006 5:28 am ] |
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Question. Can I simply dump HHG granules into hot water and dissolve until I reach a thickness that I like? Or can it only be made one way? |
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| Author: | John How [ Wed Aug 16, 2006 5:39 am ] |
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I think you have to get it up to temp (140° or so) before you can judge the viscocity. |
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| Author: | LanceK [ Wed Aug 16, 2006 5:44 am ] |
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Yes, that I know, but can you just wing it? Keep adding Glue and melting it all down until you like what you have? |
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| Author: | Jim Watts [ Wed Aug 16, 2006 5:47 am ] |
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Lance, the Cello maker I was talking to (fish glue thread) doesn't measure anything. So I think you can just wing it. |
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| Author: | Rod True [ Wed Aug 16, 2006 5:55 am ] |
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Now, I know nothing about HHG but I betcha that it didn't get much more scientific than that in the old days Lance
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| Author: | John How [ Wed Aug 16, 2006 5:55 am ] |
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Lance, after you initially add water and then heat it up, I don;t see why you couldn't thin while it is heated to get the consistency you want. |
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| Author: | D Stewart [ Wed Aug 16, 2006 6:14 am ] |
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I think there is a real good primer on this at Frank Ford's Frets.com. I don't know if that will help for sure with that question. I am headed there to review it myself. I just bought an adjustable hot pot for $10 at local store just like someone had posted here. I am ready to try the HHG myself for the first time. Donovan |
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| Author: | Colin S [ Wed Aug 16, 2006 6:53 am ] |
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Lance, I have always mixed my batches of HHG up in about a one to one ratio, and then put it into an old ice tray to gel. This then goes into the fridge in a coffee jar. When I want some I just take a cube out and heat it in the baby bottle warmer and add more distilled water to the glue bottle until I get the consistency I want for any particular gluing job. Each new batch of glue needs different amounts of water. This is how my grandfather (a cabinet maker) did it, I don't think he'd have thought much of people that needed to weigh their glue. Just wing it! Colin |
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| Author: | L. Presnall [ Wed Aug 16, 2006 7:01 am ] |
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Okay, now once a guy has his glue right how the heck does he go fast enough to use it? I'm thinking of laying my bridge on my heating blanket to get it hot, then racing it to it's spot on the guitar!!!?? 
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| Author: | JJ Donohue [ Wed Aug 16, 2006 7:02 am ] |
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Lance...I'd mix it according to the instructions first and then adjust to suit your needs. There's probably a good reason why luthiers first chose that ratio. See Frank Ford's site. I make it thicker when I glue on the tops. Just thick enough to form a bead around the kerfed linings (thanks, Mario!) Also, be sure to dissolve HG in distilled water. You're looking for purity, consistency and repeatability. Who knows what's in tap water from day to day? |
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| Author: | Kirt Myers [ Wed Aug 16, 2006 7:21 am ] |
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A heat lamp on your top might help. Frank Ford has good info and you can check this site http://deller.com/newpage8.htm Kirt |
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| Author: | LuthierSupplier [ Wed Aug 16, 2006 8:26 am ] |
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I saw a good repair guy heat his bridge with a heat gun until it got so hot you couldn't hold it in your hand. Not enough to scorch the top, but not enough not to hold. This gave him plenty of working time. Tracy |
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| Author: | RussellR [ Wed Aug 16, 2006 8:33 am ] |
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Lance I use the same method as Colin, Mix in Thick, then add Water once it is up to temp in the baby bottle warmer, As you use it some water evaporates so sometimes it is neccasary to thin it. On the bridge pre heating Frank Ford gave me a tip on the OLF to microwave your bridge for 20 to 40 Secs to extend the open time, alternatly another method is to use a hot plate to warm it, this is what I do, Colin taught me this. |
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| Author: | mikev [ Wed Aug 16, 2006 11:47 am ] |
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i used to steal my wifes hair drier,,lol Mike |
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| Author: | Serge Poirier [ Wed Aug 16, 2006 2:49 pm ] |
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Lance, in regard to your question, i remember reading somewhere that it would be better to mix first, heat at 140 degrees, let cool off, gel and when you are ready to use it, the reheating would make it stronger by a chemical reaction but i might be wrong, i'd have to find that page first or has anyone else read about this? Serge |
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| Author: | Sprockett [ Wed Aug 16, 2006 2:53 pm ] |
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This has been covered before but basically even if you measure, weigh and mix to precise tolerances it won't matter. Because to use HHG you have to keep it at 140 (or as close as you can get) it evaporates constantly, I mix 1:1 granuals and DISTILLED or filtered water, let it get up to temp and then add water as needed (or more flakes)... Tracy's right about heating things, the hotter the more working time and (I know Al will come in and correct me) but IMO you get a better glue joint because the glue penetrates better... Cheers -Paul- |
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| Author: | RussellR [ Wed Aug 16, 2006 6:58 pm ] |
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Serge I like to allow the glue to cool and then reheat it, I think it was Mario who passed this on to us. |
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| Author: | Serge Poirier [ Wed Aug 16, 2006 10:06 pm ] |
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Yes Russ, i believe i've also read that in a page or a link provided by Shane Neifer... Thanks |
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| Author: | Colin S [ Thu Aug 17, 2006 1:06 am ] |
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[QUOTE=L. Presnall] Okay, now once a guy has his glue right how the heck does he go fast enough to use it? I'm thinking of laying my bridge on my heating blanket to get it hot, then racing it to it's spot on the guitar!!!?? [/QUOTE]
As Russell said, I always have my braces and bridges sitting on an electric food warmer, and then use a hair dryer on the top to bring that up to temperature to give more working time with the HHG. I bought it cheap on eBay. The good thing about this is that it is thermostatic so you can get the braces up to temp and keep them there until youneed them. With my food warmer tray, baby bottle warmer and hairdryer I'm thinking of writing a book on "Household appliances and the art of luthiery"! 
Colin |
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| Author: | Sprockett [ Thu Aug 17, 2006 5:19 am ] |
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I don't think Mario was saying to cool and re-heat the glue, I don't that will have any effect on it. I know that what he does is make up big batches of it and then freezes it and when he needs more just drops a sliver of the frozen glue in the pot. I keep mine in the fridge when I'm not using it and it will last a long time that way... Cheers -Paul- |
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| Author: | Alain Lambert [ Thu Aug 17, 2006 5:26 am ] |
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What is important (I think), is to let the glue sit for 12 or so hours before using it, so that the protein rehydrate and have a chance to do whatever they have to do with water. This is why the instruction recommend to cover with water and let stand overnight before heating and adjusting consistency. |
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| Author: | KiwiCraig [ Thu Aug 17, 2006 10:34 am ] |
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I've been using Hide glue for over 35 years. It was always my job as a 15 year old apprentice piano tuner /tech , to mix a batch up for the guys in the workshop .I would receive "reports "  as to how it was .
Before ending the work day , I pour the granules in the hot glue pot and a bit more than cover it with water. Quickly mix it. The next morning ,I put the pot (the old water jacket type) , on the hot plate ,and let it warm for a while ( never to boiling of course ). Never measured the amounts , nor did we have a thermometer . The glue developes a top skin ,which you just mix in occasionally . As the day goes on,it gets thicker and darker (some guys like it thick and dark ). If too thick, just mix in some more water , and let it cook a while. Never bothered with a refridgerater. Some days , if there is still enough glue in the pot, I don't bother remixing and just reheat the pot . It's really no big deal. As to how thick you have it, it's a personal thing . Some people have it thick , others like it thinner. I like it to flow a little thinner than honey. Traditionally, we use a little thin whale bone (from an old ladies corset ), to mix and apply the stuff. Regards KiwiCraig |
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| Author: | Serge Poirier [ Thu Aug 17, 2006 12:18 pm ] |
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Thanks Craig, i like this new point of view on this subject! 
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